[00:00:00] stop what you're doing or you're going to go back to prison for a very long time. God spoke to me and he spoke to me powerfully. So I've bought the machine. We start manufacturing ecstasy pills and speed tablets and I'm now doing like kilos of cocaine. I'm getting like 10 kilos at a time. And so I'm like, "Yeah, Lord, I'll stop. I'll stop. I'll stop selling drugs." You know, I carried on. I carried on. I carried on selling. I've got the two kilos next to me in the car. My nose was pretty pretty badly broken and I had my head was like like a number one or very very short maybe even shorter than that.
[00:00:32] So I look pretty aggressive as well. I see something out the corner of my eye and as I look round it's a police car and the police car is driving like 5 m an hour 2 mph past my car and both of them are like that looking into the car. If I don't sort this out I'm bang in trouble. So I'm in the factory. I got this this ecstasy uh machine making the tablets is going clunk clunk clunk. Every clunk's like another pill. It's pressing out like all of a sudden I've heard on the front door. It's like three three knocks and so I'm like someone's at the door. I've looked down through the crack of the door. I can see three figures standing behind the door. Is it C undercover police? It sounds like someone's actually walking up the stairs. I thought no surely not. And all of a sudden, three more knocks, but this time on the bedroom door that I'm in.
[00:01:24] Today, I want to really just start at the beginning, Kev. So, just take us back if you can, like take us back to you growing up in Leytonstone. What was that like and just walk us through the earliest parts of your life? Yeah. So, I I grew up a fairly normal sort of upbringing really. I I grew up in Leytonstone. We moved there when I was about 5 years old. And um you know I was one of three children. Uh later on there was a there was a a fourth child that me mom and dad adopted. It was one of them houses that was always full of children.
[00:01:55] If it was our cousins or it was the local kids, everyone wanted to come over to our house and stay over there. I think that that's sort of like um sort of shows my parents what they was like really. Um you know my dad was uh one of 13 children, big old family. So I think in you know from from Dublin my mom was from Mortar and um I think that my dad being one of 13 children had certain ways you know what I mean maybe you know it we had a loving grandparents um but I think that you know it's going to be difficult to share your love amongst 13 children you know to to you know so I think that they kind of learned to get on with it and it was just how things was you know and um but then that you know we're a product of our upbringing, you know, the same as I'm a product of my upbringing. Um was the same as was the same case for my dad. And my dad was um you know, he wasn't the most loving
[00:02:54] type of person. See, which kind of shaped me into who I am. I'm like extra loving w with people and I really want to encourage people and and love on them and stuff like that because my dad wasn't so much. He wasn't, you know, wasn't a bad man. He was a a tough old Irishman and uh and and he was just brought up a certain way and and that's how it shaped him, you know, and like I said, and and it's how it shaped me as well, you know, and so I I think growing up I was kind of a bit of the black sheep of the family really, you know, and um uh you know, I wasn't getting in major trouble, but I was kind of doing little bits and pieces. And you know, I think that my youngest encounter with the police was probably when I was like maybe nine or something like that. Maybe nine or 10, round about that age. And um and there was some of the kids had like a motorbike um that had been this stolen motorbike and they was riding on it. And you know, I weren't even on the bike. I was just there with other kids while
[00:03:52] they was all buzzing around on it, you know. And the police turned up and uh they they just started chasing everyone. and everyone just soon as they see the police would run, you know, even though I hadn't actually got on the motorbike or done nothing wrong, you know, just an instant, oh, the police will run, you know, is um it's very different how things are today to what it was then. You know, the police, you had a fear of the police and you knew if you've done something wrong, you could get a cl around the ear or you could even get beaten up if you was a little bit older, you know, by they muck muck about, especially around ran our way, you know.
[00:04:23] And so I see this I see this police turn up. I'm running and I was over Catw State in Leytonstone and I was I was running it was called the podium like it was the raised level above the car parks and I'm running and just started running off and the police had grappers had grabbed this fell and he said where are you? He said, "Will you stop right there? Don't move." And I went, "Okay." And I froze. You know, like, you know, a little bit later on in life, I would have been off. I been like, "See you later. I'm not stopping." You know, obviously had someone. So, he couldn't chase me, you know.
[00:04:54] And so, um, I've stopped where I was and they took me down the police station and, you know, called my mom and dad and, you know, they said just just say, you know, I mean, this is this is a bad start. I was about nine or 10 years old. They said, "Oh, just just say that you see two of the other kids that they caught that was riding on it. Just say you see him on it and we'll let you go." And so like I'm like nine or 10 years old terrified like I don't know if I was more terrified of my dad being in the police station there or or these coppers, you know. And so I said, "Yeah, yeah, they they was they was on it, you know, and which caused me later on in life, you know, a few months later it caused me a lot of problems as well with the kids, you know, now I've grasped up, you know, which is never would do like, you know, like I don't know, 8 n 10 years old, something like that was. And so um and so this sort of started. It was a a bit of a shaky start into into my criminality and uh and it kind of went from there really. It was it was
[00:05:51] sort of like a little bit later on that kind of kept me out of trouble for a while. I was a little bit of trouble in school and that, you know, I was I I I think I had um you know, they say that ADHD and you know, I had had issues in concentrating and that and so I would kind of mess about in school and you know, cause a bit of trouble and I'd become the class clan and you know and and joke about because I just couldn't I lack concentration, you know, and uh I know nowadays they recognize a lot of these things and they're able to help kids a lot more, but back then they never, you know, and so that kind of started. But I was getting in a bit of trouble in scores in my second secondary school uh Rockalt Manor School in Leighton Leytonstone uh by right by the Leighton football grand it was. And uh I was I was in this in this uh school getting in trouble and they kept giving me you know I was getting a little couple of warnings here and there and then I had sort of pretty major happen in my life which I think changed the direction of my life completely. you know, uh, my mom left the house and, um, you know, uh, she left the house and she
[00:06:51] got this this small flat or whatever. And, uh, and you know, I was sort of blamed for it. You know, I was told my dad said, "Oh, it's you cuz you're being naughty all the time." You know, it later on transpired that it wasn't my fault. And um but you know that's kind of stayed with me you know and and I think that you know I think if my dad would have come and said you know what actually I made a mistake you know I found out you know obviously it wasn't your fault and uh I apologize or whatever even if he just sort of kind of mentioned it might have might have helped the situation but I kind of carried that and I just found myself I think my mom had been left for about a year or something you know and um I just started getting in a lot of trouble in school and you know then then Um they I got a warning from the school.
[00:07:34] They said, you know, uh they pulled me in the office quite a few times and the headmaster said, you know, this is your last warning. Any more trouble, you're out of here. We're going to kick you out of school. I just carried on, you know, I carried on. I used to I used to turn up at school. I' i'd go into school and and um they'd say, "Carthy, where's your tire?" And I said, "Um, you ain't got it. I forgot it at home." "Okay, go home then. Go home." Like they're punishing me. But I'm like, "Okay, no problem." I had it in my pocket the whole time. So it was just an excuse to get out of the school. kind of already I'd had enough like you know and so um that kind of went on for a while and like like in the end they said that's it you got to go they kicked me out the school you know and so that kind of suited me that but that kind of was I think the turning point in my life where things was going pretty bad you know somehow I' I'd had it in my head that you know you're not going to make it in life the the enemy the devil would convince me you know you're not going to make it in life the only way you're going to make it is if
[00:08:30] you go out and take things yourself. You know, you go out and do it the wrong way. You know, if you you're never going to make it by just going to have have a job or a business or anything like that. So, this is what you got to do. You got to go and take it. So, from a young age, I decided I'm going to go and do an armed robbery. Like, I that's what I'm going to do, you know. And um I I kind of nearly got into it with a group of older boys. They trying to get me to use my car. They was going to do like a wage snatch thing. And I thought, hang on, this this ain't going to be good. Even in my I was only like 17 by that point, you know, maybe maybe 17, just turned 18 around about that age. And I thought I'm going to end up getting nicked and chances are they might may get away of it. And I thought, no, I ain't going to do that, you know. So I didn't do that.
[00:09:13] But when a little bit after that, I was I was um going to go and do an armed robbery with with this young fella I met and he says, "Yeah, I've got this imitation gun and you know, we're we we're do this robbery." I said, "Come on. Yeah, I'm right up for it." So we went back to his house and I think he obviously had second thoughts about it sensibly really because it was kind of my idea to start with and he said he come back out and said I got to do it with my family and I can't I can't um you know come with you to do this robbery like you know we was going to go and do like a building society and so um that kind of put a stop to it again for another few years you know I was um you know started smoking cannabis when I was about 15 and you know nothing heavy ier than than that for the time being.
[00:09:58] Anyway, and uh later on in life, I I discovered the rave scene. I was like mini cabining up in Bethl Green and some of my friends said, "Oh, there's this party in a warehouse, you know, like do you want to come?" And I'm like, "Yeah, you know, like like warehouse partying and and it was like I said, would we be all right?" Like, you know, cuz back in the day it was the Jamaican lads would do the do the warehouse parties, you know, and like white faces. my friends was like a lot of my friends were Turkish and that and a few white guys but I'm like we be welcome then they said no no it's like this rave and that you know never heard of it like you know and this is this is what kind of put me further down the wrong path really cuz we went uh the second time I went there I took my first ecstasy tablet and it kind of started me off down this journey of of taking drugs and you know I'm I'm smoking uh draw like weed and stuff back in the day or hash as it was back then as well. And uh and it kind of made me
[00:10:56] not want to really work, you know. I was doing a bit cabing. I go out mini cabin, get enough money to go work and that was it. And then and then about that sort of time I stopped cabing. I was doing a bit of sorry I was doing a bit of cabin and I was I was doing a bit of dancing work as well up in Bethl Green in in um a pub called the Old Axe. So I was doing that type of work, just getting enough money and then going out doing my raving and you know really I just didn't want to work like you know and um and so that's what kind of started me off down that journey with the drugs and stuff and when I was like 23 years old um I' I'd already bunch uh met met someone a guy called Joey who's who become my best friend we both like the black sheep in the family his sister and my brother got married you know and uh so I start we're we're out taking drugs together going to the faves and that and uh and Joey said like yeah let's let's you know he wanted to do like um a robbery you know so the first one he' done it was um he he'd
[00:11:56] already done one thing which I said I don't really want to get involved in that because I'd worked for the guy it was a pub like you know and I'd worked for the guy that owned the pub and he said no no he's on holiday he won't be there and I'm like still I think that's disrespectful I didn't want to do it you know and so and so we've we've done that. Oh, sorry. He'd done that with my other mate and it was then they've come back to me a bit later on once the money had gone. It gone in like 2 minutes as it does. Easy come, easy go. And then and then we've ended up doing uh another robbery together and um which in the end I went, you know, we got caught. Didn't really know what we was doing. It's proper amateur hour really, you know, but it was like an imitation firearm, a knife and and a bit of muscle. That's it basically was. And we got caught for it.
[00:12:44] And uh we ended up getting uh four years in prison like first first time couple of like I said you know a couple of little runins with the law minor things when I was younger. Um and but this time now we're going to prison we all got four years each and again each time I was going that little bit further down that path down the wrong path you know and each time I it was making me more convinced the enemy was more in my ear. You know see you ain't going to make nothing to yourself. the only way. And I'm think well I ain't really doing that great ain't doing this either. The criminal route ain't really doing much for me either, you know. But for some reason I'm still listening listening to the enemy more than than me own um common sense really. And so I come out of prison I thought you know what I before I went to prison I'd already started working for Dino Rod, you know, and I loved that job. And I had I had like um a couple of years after the cabin and and stuff that I was I was um working for for this company. And so once I come out of prison, I thought, "No, I'm gonna
[00:13:42] go straight and I'm gonna work work for D go back to work for Diana Rod, which they had me back." And I thought, "Yeah, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna crack on with that and not I don't want to go back to prison again because it was horrible. You know what I mean?" And it it just um some people like my codefendant uh y there's three of us. Yos kind of messed him up a little bit and Joey was just come out just normal. Had it hadn't affect him at all like you know. For me it did, you know, it was it was uh it it did make a change on me, you know. And so I come out come out of jail, like I said, went back to work.
[00:14:15] Everything was all right for a while, but still smoking um puff like, you know, weed or or ash or whatever. I still still having a puff. So I thought I I know what I'll do is I'll I'll um maybe I'll sell a little bit just to just to cover my own bit that I'm smoking, you know, not not to try and make a business out of it. And so I was doing that and was doing pretty well. Like I started selling quite a bit. I was making more money than what I was smoking. You know, you're smoking weeds and that and it's like you get lazy and it's like I just don't want to work really. And I had a really good job as well. And I'm like what's the point?
[00:14:48] I'm earning better money doing the legal stuff than what I do doing the job. Even though I was earning good wages at that thought, I might as well just give it up and go full-time crime. What's the point sticking with this? like cuz like I said I was I was really lazy as well and so that's what I done. went full-time crime, gave up gave up uh Dino Rod. Um and then and then just cracked on from there and and things progressively got worse, you know, now all of a sudden I'm full-time. So I'm like I want to earn more money now. I haven't got more wages coming in and and you know, I hadn't intended really of doing anything more harder, but I'm now back in the rave scene again. Back back doing the raves and um then I thought, you know what, maybe maybe I will sort of start selling pills and that I'm taking pills. it means I get mine for nothing. And that's how it sort of came about, you know. Um, it just kind of progressed. There was no deliberate intention really to go into the extent that I ended up, but it just
[00:15:48] sort of progressed, you know. I was doing well at that and then an opportunity had come up, someone would be able to get a certain thing or or someone would be able to get the pills cheaper or do you know what I mean? I get a a better contact and it just progressed and progressed and before I knew it I was I was like full on you know uh selling drugs in quite a big way. Um you know along that journey I met my wife uh Zowie uh both of us was kind of black sheep of the family really um in you know had our issues growing up and um and so we we kind of yeah we just kind of clicked. I mean the funny story I tell you quick funny story about it uh we was we become like really really good friends straight away you know we we become best friends you know before we ever got together and so she said to me she's I'm living in this house on my own and she said to me oh like you know if you like I'll come around and do the cleaning so I said oh that'd be great like you know cuz I'd keep everything
[00:16:46] tidy but back then I wasn't really one for cleaning and stuff you know what I mean maybe a little wipe down of the sides but you know I Imagine looking back it was probably bit rancid really and uh she comes and says uh oh she do the clean I thought oh happy days like you know so she comes around does the clean she gets there really early to it was pretty late I'm sure it was like 9 at night or something like that and I said to her it's getting a little bit late you know and um I said you know uh she'd finished the cleaning at that point I said if you want you can stay like no funny business you know you can just stay you can have my bed I'll sleep on the sofa like you on on the um armchair and so uh she said she said no no that's yeah that's all right yeah I will stay and uh and then she ended up staying and she never left she just stayed there it was a cleaning job that lasted forever like you know and um and we just become best friends and we used to go go sleep in the same bed probably a bit more information than you need but
[00:17:44] sleep in the same bed and just cuddle and go to sleep and we just best friends and and then that sort of went on for couple two or three months and then and then in the And you know uh we end up getting together and you know sort went from there and had you know I've got I'm married to her now got three children and you know life started changing now while I was doing all this stuff it progressed pretty intense you know um even while Zowie I was um I started um there was a club called Epping Forest country club which is a pretty famous club in in Essex in comes under chip I think it was and um people used to travel from London and all from all over to come to this club like cuz it had like three clubs all in one space in the middle of nowhere so they could have as much noise as they wanted and didn't really disturb no one and it was like yeah it was pretty amazing place to go loads of women there so the guys would come from all over to go go to this place and I I started selling the pills uh in there and before I knew it I was I
[00:18:43] was I mean there weren't really when I first started a lot of people selling ecstasy tablets in there before I knew it I had like four guys working for me the bans used to leave us alone didn't pay him or nothing. He used to leave us alone and I'm selling selling all the drugs in there was it's going really well and I was earning you know by this stage like footballers wages and um but soon as I had my first child which is my daughter Scarlet everything changed you know because now I stopped using I stopped taking drugs and now all of a sudden I'm convicted even more strongly than before and it's like I shouldn't be doing this you know I'm not taking drugs I've got a child now. I shouldn't be doing this, you know, and but each time I try and stop and then all of a sudden the guy that I've been getting them off all of a sudden can get him cheaper or he can he's got a better deal or I find a new dealer that that is all of a sudden I'm going up higher up the scale.
[00:19:38] I'm getting like bigger tax and it was just increasing and now all of a sudden my money had go a grand a week or a couple of grand a week and it just keep going like that. Every time I thought about giving up, I I used to say to Zowie, I said, "The devil does not want me to stop." You know, because when I was in prison, which I forgot to say about um my my codefendant Yoss, he he um he come to me one day and he said to me, "Kev, I'm uh" he said, "I'm back following Jesus." I'm like, "Who? What?" Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, Kev, when I was 18, he was about my age, about 22, 23 he was. And he said, "When I was 18, I was on the streets, you know, um, preaching the gospel." I said, "What?" Like, that's that's mad. He said, "And so he starts telling me about Jesus." And I'm like, "Oh, this is amazing." Like, I'm actually interested. Now, my parents wasn't Christians. They was brought up, they call theirelves Catholics, but the only Sunday they go church is christenings and weddings or whatever or funerals. That's about it. So, they
[00:20:37] didn't really follow, but but enough. They knew enough to tell me, "Yeah, there's a God." didn't really know a lot about the Holy Spirit and stuff. Um, but they're, you know, giving the basics of God and Jesus and that, you know, and so when Yoss is telling me that, I'm like, "Yeah, okay." It kind of resonated with me and um, and so I start reading the Bible, 23-hour banger every day in terms of prison. So, I'm like, "Okay, let me start reading the Bible and that, you know, and I look into it for myself." So I started it like a book from the beginning you know now normally they say start with the gospels and you know John's a great book of John's a great place to start but I start from the beginning like a book. So I'd never really read a book up to that point. So I start uh reading it and I'm like fascinated. I'm like wow this is actually interesting you know and it's it's like great stories. It's actually interesting to read. It won't at all what I thought it was. And so when like so I had this this um you know I I decided you know what I'm gonna invite
[00:21:35] him Jesus in my life you know and because Josh is telling me all this stuff you got to invite him in. And so I got the the the um guy I don't know what even know what he was at the time. He was like a vicar or maybe he might have even been a Catholic priest. I got I'm not too sure but he came to my cell and he prayed for me and got me to do the prayer of salvation. and I invited Jesus into my life and it was all good while I was on Ramand you know but I'm still smoking I was getting bit rocky and that smuggled into the prison like bit of ash and I was I was still smoking you know and then um I got sentenced and after I got sentenced I kind of pretty much forgot about God I you know semi-open prison table tennis and bat gammon and people to you know could come and go to your cell and stuff like that you know who's just locked up in the block so I kind of forgot about God and I kind of moved on but he never forgot about me, you know. So now why forward I'm out um selling drugs and you know I'm being convicted by God and um you know and obviously I still believed in God. I
[00:22:35] just was you know down the complete wrong path now. And um but yes, I'm I'm I'm uh selling drugs in the country club and one of my friends got arrested and then a second one that I was this is people I'm sending drugs to cuz I had like four or five guys that work for me and then they all had guys that work for them. So it was quite quite a big operation. Um and then but one of them my main ones got got nicked. He got nicked on the way to the uh to the club uh literally just down the road and I thought so I just felt there was a grass like someone's grassing us up you know and uh and then the second one he got nicked away from the club I just started alarm bell started ringing for me and I thought I think I need to come away from the country club cuz I just feel I'm going to get nicked if I stay there.
[00:23:21] just really had a a strong thought about that, you know. Um, which I I I kind of believe now was I I know people listening think Holy Spirit, how can it be the Holy Spirit? But I think it was cuz I think the Holy Spirit saved me quite a few times from getting arrested because he knew what he was going to do with me and where what I was going to become in him. And if to jail again, he I think he would know that that would probably mess up the plans that he had for me. So I believe that he did protect me even though I was doing wickedness. He kept me from getting arrested and maybe give him that that uh strong sense to come away from there, you know. And it turned out that I think there was a grass in there and I think I know who who the grass was as well like and he was grassing people out. He was a rival drug dealer. Um and so I come out of there and I thought, okay, well I'm not doing the cuz I the guys working for me. I was still selling ones myself, but I was kind of mainly directing people to to to my guys, you know, and so when I come
[00:24:19] out there, I thought, okay, I'll go wholesale instead. Instead of doing it, you know, the individuals and stuff and to these guys, I'm going to go wholesale. Still selling to some of the guys that still in the club, but now I'm building up by this point quite a wide network of people that I was selling to. But then it was always that next step further, you know. But then the next step was I start manufacturing. I bought a machine. I knew someone that was uh manufacturing the pills as well. He was part of a big big uh gang from uh Liverpool and he said Kev got one of these machines if you want to buy it. So I bought the machine. We start manufacturing ecstasy pills and speed tablets and just getting worse and worse. you know, I' I'd rent out house, excuse me, every 3 or 4 months, I would maybe five at a push, I would I would change the house. Anyway, as we went along, um, now I'm I'm doing that. I'm now doing like kilos of cocaine. I'm working with a big yard gang. Uh,
[00:25:18] getting like 10 kilos at a time. Um, I'm pressing it as well. Keep a couple. I'd sell eight in like a day or something like that and keep a couple to repress basically water it down basically and I'd have a big hydraulic press to re re put this stuff back together once I' mixed it up a bit. So I was prop really like a proper factory in this place and if I'd have got caught I would have been banging trouble like you know importing is is bad I mean I mean selling drugs in that sort of quantity you'd have got you know double figures but when you start importing it goes up again it's it's a bigger amount but you'd get sentenced because it's more of a serious crime but now when you're manufacturing you are the main guy you ain't just a mule carrying it into the country you're in trouble if you get caught for it you know and so This is what I start doing.
[00:26:05] And um one, you know, I'm by this point with I was married. I'd married Zowie. We've got now three kids. Uh Scarlet, the eldest, my middle daughter, Nancy, and then James, you know, my son. And uh and so, you know, it's a lot more to lose now. You know, I've got a lot more to lose if if things go wrong. And uh I had some really really close calls. Um you know, and then one day, this is where it gets a bit nuts, right? One day God turns up. I I had I say one day I had about a twoe period where I just thought man's different. I feel like a presence around me, you know, and it's just very presence.
[00:26:47] Uh and uh I didn't really know what it was at the time, you know. I I knew there was something around me. I knew that there was different little signs I was getting, you know, like you go to the petrol pump and it it stop on 666 and things like that. It was just all little things but like I got half the things I wish I wrote it down at the time of all the different things that kept happening you know and um but it was all like mad little things I tank's not right and then one day the climax of of this twoe period I whenever you hear them like the like you do on the movies the big like uh loud voice of God but I it was spirit to spirit which I now know God spoke to me and he spoke to me powerfully and there God's got seven spirits and one of the spirit is the fear of the Lord. Yeah.
[00:27:33] And that was what I I was experiencing was the fear of the Lord. I was proper terrified. And I felt his presence around me and he said to me, "Stop what you're doing or you're going to go back to prison for a very long time." And I was I was terrified. Like, "Yeah, Lord, I'll stop. I'll stop." Like I'm talking out loud. He's talking to me spirit to spirit because obviously we're a three-part being, you know, uh our body, soul, and our spirit, you know. And so this is why you got father, son, and holy spirit, you know, created in his image. And so I'm like, "Yeah, Lord, I'll stop. I'll stop. I'll stop selling drugs." You know, but I know it sounds mad, right? Because some of the things I look back on myself and I think, "What was you thinking? What possessed you?"
[00:28:12] But that's exactly what it was, possessed. You know, I was I was had evil spirits and would do stupid crazy things sometimes. And um I carried on. I carried on. I carried on selling, right? And then one day um the first one that happened. Yeah. first one what like where I I'd get these 10 that's why I sort of mentioned the 10 kilos um earlier on it was I I'd have them and I'd have a driver right and then the driver by this point I'm earning a lot of money I mean proper football was wages I was earning and uh I'd get the driver he'd go and sell the eight in one day yeah and I' he'd normally leave him or two and I'd maybe sell parts of it and some of it I'd press up or whatever way I'd sell it but I'd sell it in bits still trying to get every penny like you know when I think back of it I was earning great money. I didn't even need to be doing all that, but you get grievy, you know. And so he said he goes and moves the these must have done six that time. Normally there
[00:29:09] was a drought on for just about 18 months. No one could get it. And I was I had this this really good contact, this yard man. And um and so this particular time, for some reason, I don't think I there was two of them that the guy couldn't get to me that particular day. And so I had two left over of my eight that I would sell, you know, and um so I thought being greedy again rather than pay another lot of wages. I'm like, "Ah, it's only two. I'll just run them myself." Like, you know, and you get a bit complacent with it really. And so, I mean, this particular house was in Leighton, right, in East London. And so, I went and met met my my friend's driver. You know, he's sending his driver, you know what I mean? More scent. I went to meet his driver. I'm waiting about for him side street. Now, picture this, right? A side street in Leighton, sitting in a car, which is you're suspicious just that on his own.
[00:30:00] But the car I was sitting in, I bought a brand new Fiesta, Ford Fiesta, because I thought I I was earning good money, you know what I mean? I was I had a new car, which was good, but I thought not, you know, make myself bait and uh make myself stand out more like people would always I did have a like a fairly nice watch that I would wear on occasions. I wouldn't wear it all the time, you know. Uh but and and I kept the car not too flashy as well, like not to draw attention to myself. And um I'm down sitting down this side street in a full fiesta which was Ford was known to be more nicable back then so it was a bit more bait really. And uh and I'm on a mobile phone which back then again not a lot of people had uh mobile phones. I was probably how old would I have been at the time? I've been saved um 24 years and I'm 58. Yeah. So 34. So it's probably about Yeah. 33 round about that sort of age at the time. And um so I I'm I'm down there on the phone and I'm
[00:30:58] screwing or my mate like he should the rule was whoever's got the food, the the the work, you know, the drugs, they would have to be to the meeting place first and then I would sorry whoever's got the cash or whoever's buying, you know, a lot of the sun there may not have been cash. He may have just turned up and I'd give it to him and get the cash after. So but he'd have to be there waiting for me. So me going with a work would come couple of minutes, 5 minutes after him. But the guy ain't there and I'm like it's 10 minutes late now. So I'm screwing on my mate down the phone.
[00:31:29] Where's your driver? Like where's your driver? Like it's going to get me nicked. And as I'm saying that I see something out the corner of my eye. And as I look round, it's a police car. And the police car is driving like 5 m an hour, 2 m hour past my car. And both of them are like that looking into the car. And I'm like, okay. So I'm look and I'm looking at them. I'm on a mobile phone, like I said, which a lot of drug dealers had mobile phones back then as well. And I've got my Maybe I'll send you a picture that you can put on the podcast to show what I look like back then as well. My nose was pretty pretty badly broken. I've had a few operations on it since then. It still don't look that great. And I had my head was like like a number one or very very short, maybe even shorter than that. So, I look pretty aggressive as well. And I'm looked like that. Seen these two coppers looking at me. And I've looked back like this and I thought if I don't stall this out, I'm banging trouble. I've got the two kilos next to me in the car. I'm banging trouble. So as I turned back talking to
[00:32:27] my friend on the on the phone, I just burst out laughing. Oh, and my mates came, Kev, like, are you all right? Because I've lost the plot, like you know. And I'm saying I Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this. And then the police carried on going round and I thought, okay, right, I've got them. They've they've gone. And I said that was the police just drove past me like I've switched back, you know, angry again. And I said, they've just drove past me looking in the car. But I'm thinking, have I done enough? You know, have I done enough laughing? And you know, cuz if I was nervous, cuz they're trained, I know they're trained to look for certain signs. They see me laughing. Maybe they're thinking, "Oh, I ain't got nothing to to worry about, you know."
[00:33:03] But they're on a one-way system in in Leighton and they're going to go around in a big circle potentially and come back. So I'm sitting there thinking, "What should I do late?" you know. So, I jump out of the car. I've grabbed these these um 2 kilos of coke like, you know, and I and I've went and hid it underneath um a car like two or three cars behind me or whatever, you know, and when I'm sat back in the car. Then I'm thinking, man, that's a lot of money. Like, you know, I think it cost I think I was selling them. It cost me 48 uh grand for the two and I was putting a grand on each one. So, it's 50 grand's worth of stuff there, you know. I'm thinking I'm in Leighton back Leighton's a bit more posh now, but back then it was like really rough and I'm thinking someone might have seen me out the window and might come and nick it. So, which is pretty crazy, right? When you know you're thinking about I could get double figures in prison and I'm worrying about this money when really I had quite a bit of money in and really it was insignificant but greed again, you know. So then I've got out the car thought no let me just get it.
[00:34:02] I'm looking there. They're not coming round still yet, but I thought, let me just get it and I put it under my car. So, I'm sitting in the car with it underneath my car. Think maybe they won't think to look underneath there. And um and then I'm waiting waiting. Then all of a sudden, my mate pulls up. So, I've quickly grabbed it, gave my mate or my mate's driver the two things. He's gone so I know I'm safe. But that was the first warning I felt from God as he'd warned me, stop what you're doing or you're going to go to prison for a very long time. And I felt that that was a warning. And I was thinking, man, is that God warning me of what, you know, of what's going to happen? Like, oh, maybe I should listen. But crazily, I carried on. I carried on. And and it still when I think about it, like I must have lost the plot completely. I carried on, you know, and so one day um after that, probably a week or two after that, I reckon it would have been can't can't really remember the exact time, but I would imagine it was about within that time frame. Um, I'm in the um this house
[00:35:01] that I rented. This time now I'm in Forest Gate. No, actually it probably would have been a month or two after that because by now I've moved house. I'm now in Forest Gate. I've got a new new um place and um I'm I'm in this place now. This house I had always changed the lock. Soon as I got in there, changed all the locks. Um and you know, just to make sure that you're not really meant to do it, but just to make sure no one can get in because of the things I've got in this like a factory. And so I've got this um one one day I'm in there on my own. I haven't got normally I'd have my mate my mate Dell is he don't mind me saying his name um because he's out of it all now as well. But he he used to work me and help me with a factory and stuff and do bits and pieces for me. And uh he said um he wasn't there this particular day.
[00:35:49] So I'm in the factory. I've got this this ecstasy uh machine making the tablets. It's going clunk clunk clunk. every clunk's like another pill. It's pressing out like you know and um and I've got it's laid out in this bedroom with thousands and thousands of well tens of thousands probably of ecstasy tablets, speed tablets and all that that I've made previously that have been packaged up into the thousands and I've got some of these tablets ready in the thousands I sealed all up. Some are in like you got the granulated powder because you got to granulate before you make it and and some of that's all dry and I've got heat blowing on it. I mean, it's a a full-on factory, you know, and um and so I'm I'm I'm just happened to be Zowie happened to ring me and I'm talking to on the phone and and um these machines clunking in the background. All of a sudden, I've heard on the front door, it's like three three knocks and so I'm like, "Someone's at the door." I said to Zowie, like whenever someone would knock, we' we'd start panicking, you know, like it's oh
[00:36:46] someone's at the door, like you know, because obviously we wasn't we wouldn't weren't living there or nothing. we'd only go in in the daytime. So, it made it more suspicious. This is why I wouldn't stay there for too long. I'd only stay there for short periods of time because in that period of think, oh, maybe they're doing the house up or whatever. There's people coming and going in the daytime. Maybe they're doing it up or whatever. But after a period of time, people start twitching the curtains and wondering what you're up to in there and start getting suspicious, you see. So, um, when someone would knock at the door, we'd think, "Oh, is it police or someone is one of the neighbors said suspicious activity going on over there?" And they've sent the police over to to knock just to because they can't kick the door off yet unless unless someone's grasped them unless they followed us back to the house, which is less likely, you know, because we was very cautious. Um, so it'd only be them knocking on the door, testing the waters if if someone had got suspicious. And so we're like, "Ah, you know, is is it is it the old Bill like
[00:37:45] the police at the door?" And uh and so I'm I'm saying to Zowie, I don't know who it is. And she's saying, "Well, go and have a look." And it's pretty obvious really. Have a look. But for some stupid reason, which I still don't know why I've done this, I got it's a three-bedroom house, but I've got the the bedroom that we used was the the top of the stairs. So basically, you got like a smoke glass window uh of the front door. So if if we're opening that door, people can see us through. They can make out movement in there. They might not make out who it is, but they can see there's movement.
[00:38:17] And so I've just cracked open the door just enough to have a look. I've looked down through the crack of the door. I can see three figures standing behind the door. The first figure is standing closer to the door. The other two are standing a little bit further back. And it was only a quick glance, but I couldn't really make out them two, you know, but the guy but the guy standing I could see potentially it was three fellas, but the guy standing closer to the uh glass had a suit and tie on and that and I'm thinking is it C undercover police, you know, and just trying to see what's going on. And so I'm like if I answer the door and it is the police and I don't give them a good enough if I could create suspicion in any way, then they're coming back with a search warrant. So the the the cue was don't don't answer it at all, you know. So I'm like, "Ah, see undercover police like you know, and I'm saying this a lot. I better go like, you know, and then by this point I I realized where the machine's cloning away and I've turned the machine off so you can't hear the
[00:39:14] cloning noise in the background and um and so I'm just waiting really nervously um inside the bedroom with the doors shut and I'm kind of listening intently. Now, the knocking went on for a little while and then it went quiet for a few minutes. So, I thought maybe they've gone, you know, maybe they've decided to go and I'm waiting and then I thought, can I hear something? And I I hear this noise and I thought that really sounds like someone's in the house. I thought, now they can't be. But, you know what I said about changing the locks? I changed the front door key, but I hadn't changed the back door key because I could never the key to even open the back door, you know. But and so I'm thinking, "Oh, don't tell me someone's in the house."
[00:39:54] Like, you know, and so I'm got my ear more or less pressed up against the door trying to listen to the sounds. And I thought, am I am I being paranoid? Like, cuz it sounds like someone's actually walking up the stairs. I thought, "No, surely not." Like, you know, then all of a sudden, three more knocks, but this time on the bedroom door that I'm in. So, I'm absolutely terrified. But, you know, I've got surgical gloves on, you know, always there's a golden rule. always wear the gloves, you know, and um so I I'm like took one of the gloves off and I'm keeping the other one on to open the door and then I'm kind of put me arm behind me back and uh I can't remember how I done it yet. I must have kept that glove on, use that to open the door so they can see my hand and then put my hand behind the back my back and sort of shut the door and then put my hand behind then I'm trying to take off the the other glove there. I mean, it's real suspicious really, but I just out of sheer panic, you know, and this three fella standing before me, right? A white guy and two Asian guys
[00:40:53] and the it's like a old older Asian guy and a younger guy. And I said, "What are you doing in my ass?" They said, "It's not your ass, is it?" "It's his house," he said. He said, "He's he's the owner." It was the owner and his son, you know. So, I said, "Yeah, but you know, I'm renting it, you know." Yeah, but you you ain't paid the rent, have you? So, now now um they're in the house. I'm just trying to talk him off out of the house. I'm like, if I can get him out, you know, just try and talk him out and, you know, I'll even meet the guy, give him a bit of money to give us chance to clear the house cuz obviously the house has got to be cleared now. And um and so I've I've spoke talk to talk him out the house. They've they've gone outside and I said to them um no then I was sort of thinking to myself, what should I do?
[00:41:34] Like you know, I'm like paneling. It was winter time and I thought, right, I've got a rock sat not rock. hold a big sort of hold bag. So I filled it up, stuffed as much as what I could get inside this bag and I thought I can't take the machine. Maybe I'll just run and try and just leave everything and and hope that I haven't one day took off one of my gloves or my mate hadn't one day took off one of his gloves and been careless and left a fingerprint somewhere. You know, sort of all this stuff's racing through my mind. So I go out outside the h I went to run outside with with my coat on. I thought and the bag and I thought if they see me like that they're going to think I'm running off and they're definitely going to come in the house. Let me just put the bag to one side. I go out with my coat on cuz it's winter and um as I go outside they're there. They're outside the house and I'm like Lord in my mind I'm going Lord please get me out of this. I promise you I promise you if you get me out of this I'll stop selling drugs. I promise you.
[00:42:30] you know, as I'm walking towards them, I'm sort of having this deal with God who's already warned me, you know, and um so I've get outside, start talking to these guys and um I said to him, "Guys, listen, I promise you, I'm reassuring them again. You know, I promise you, you'll definitely get your money and uh you know, I promise you I'll meet you later on tonight." And off off they went. They went. I thought, "Thank God for that. They've gone, you know, so now I've got an opportunity to run back in the house. I I'll run back in once they've been well gone. grabbed as much as what I could, chucked it in the car, drove off of it. Um, I phoned someone who was a family member um that that agreed, you know. He said, um, well, I can probably say it was my my brother Tom. He said, um, you know, yeah, no worries. Um, you know, he spoke to his mate to try and get us in banging trouble. I need somewhere to to keep some stuff. And he he spoke to his mate and got me out of trouble. And um, I left the stuff there, came back later on with another person. And then we cleared
[00:43:28] cleared all the house, got the machine out, got all the um rest of the drugs out. Once we had cleared it and left it all in the car, parked up the road, went back into the house, wiped every doorway, every every all the toilet area, every anywhere we thought we might have might have touched, like bleached it all bad and everything just to make sure, and then left the house. And I'm like, okay, I've made a promise to God that I'm not going to sell drugs anymore, right? I've promised him, but now I'm going back before God with with absolute audacity. And I've said to to God, "Lord, listen. I promise you I'll stop I'll stop selling drugs, and I will. I will stop selling drugs, but Lord, I've got all my money stuck in the in the drugs that I've got." You know, I think the machine that was was I think cost me about 30 grand for this machine, you know. So, I said, "Let me just sell my stuff and then I'll promise you I'll start making this deal with God." Must be thinking, "What are you having a laugh at? I've got you out of it twice."
[00:44:18] Yeah. You could have got nicked. got you out of it twice and you're making a deal with me to and you're still going to carry on like you know but that's what I done. I stopped I stopped um I stopped you know um I got sold everything and then stopped. I gave up. Now I've got this big bag of money. Yeah, I had some, you know, during this period of time, I managed to wangle away buying the house and everything. And, you know, I did have a a little little business that I had like carpet cleaning business that I'd sort of started up really just to to do this stuff with really, you know, to to get the house with. And um and so I've got this house. So, I've got some straight money, not a lot really. So, I sold my house a long time. There weren't really a lot of money in it, but most of my money was was dodgy like you know.
[00:45:01] And so I bought this business, gave the girl who's dead now as well. She has no come back on her anyway. Gave the girl a big bag of money and and some and and the straight money to buy this business. And that's what I done. You know, I went, you know, just really I went running around like a headless chicken looking to try and find a business to do. And you know, um and this is what I done. And I put all the money into it. Long story short, um it I went out of business. that we'd done all our money, you know, we went from having all this money to being in a homeless hostel with my family. Yeah. We went by this point we was uh renting a big house uh and Copel estate napping which is we had Rod Stewart at the other end of the estate and you know all this and we went from this big house to to um you know homeless hostel. Uh we just just got saved at this point. I kind of skipped the story story a little bit, but we got we got saved. Um, you know, we while we was living in Copto Estate, the it was haunted, you know, and the mansion was
[00:45:58] really uh uh like famous for being haunted. I went there when I was like 18 years old. Um, when my f when I was 17, when my friend first uh first passed his driving test, we went over there. It's apparently famous for witches and devil worshiping and all that. I mean, we didn't see nothing, you know, just a burnt out mansion. But now 18 17 18 years later I'm back there and we've rented this gaff in Copel estate and it was haunted and you know to cut a long story short we we tried to shame and he come in you know burnt some feathers and that and didn't really do a lot probably made it worse if anything else and and then my wife says how about yeah Zowie said how about um Steven the vicar at our kids school because she she was wise enough to put our kids in a Christian school you know and I went yeah we'll give it a go like you So we got him round there. He's he's coming to he's coming to the house. He moved the two rooms. He went round blessed every room.
[00:46:52] He went I feel presence in this room and I feel presence in this room. I said he was a he was a vicar. But half of of the Church of England back then is probably a lot less now. But they did believe in the gifts. They did believe in deliverance like casting out demons and all that sort of stuff. And um but he was one of them thankfully. And so he he he knew the rooms. He blessed it. We never had a problem again because we'd had all sorts of manifestations. that Zowie one day this presence I mean she was just reading a book sitting up in bed she wasn't even that tired or nothing she felt a presence come like sit down on the bed the bed literally compact as if someone had sat on it and then they went you know like when you get in bed at the end of the night to be in bed this is what it was and she had things like I had I seen something and my son James is only like two or three was terrified he went from being a confident kid and all of a sudden he's being terrified and he said he'd see a evil monkey. No, like I know you're going to think I'm ripping that off from Family Guy, but that's what he said. He said it
[00:47:49] was a monkey with evil eyes. And when he was like first seen, he drew this picture of it, you know, and uh and so that's obviously what it looked like. And the family guy must must have had the same experience as a kid himself and he wrote it into it, you know, and um and so with all this stuff going on now, we got the vicer around the house. he's he's got rid of all the demons and and he's come in and uh we sat down for a cup of tea and and he said, "Oh, so would you guys like to invite Jesus into your life?" Now, I'd already had the two warnings, you know, we' bought the business cuz God had warned me, spoke to me and everything else. I gave my life in prison. So, it was like a buildup to this, you know, and especially with them experiences of what was happening, it was like, "Yeah, yeah, that it just felt right to me. God had spoke to me and I just thought yeah it was the right thing to do you know and um and we both said yeah yeah you know we're we're give our lives you know and uh it was after that cuz at that point Zowie didn't know about me giving my life in prison you know she said I used
[00:48:48] to come out with these these um Bible um verses and stuff and she said it was weren't really like man of God it was a bit more like Samuel Jackson you know in that scene where Pulp Fiction where he starts giving the Bible verse before before he shoots someone or whatever and she it was a bit more like that. You come out this B where did you get that from? But she never asked me. It turns out when she was younger when she was like 13 or 14 she got she went to a Billy Graham concert like uh not concert revival.
[00:49:19] Yeah. Meeting up in West Ham Football Ground. Everyone was talking about I remember hearing about it myself. this famous American evangelist is coming to the UK and and she went with her friend and her friend's mom and dad were Christians and run down to the stage and uh when when they done the auto call and going praise the Lord and praise the Lord and but she was just mocking it really you know she's just a young kid having fun like you know and didn't really take it too seriously but she did give her life to Jesus um the same is what I did and when you give your life to Jesus It's it's like you're inviting him in. He's a gentleman. He's he's at the uh door of your heart knocking, but he will not come in unless you're inviting him. You see? So, we both invited him in. So, this is why we believe that that we had this experience all these years later. And um we start going to church once, you know, give our life to Jesus with the vicar Steven. We start going to we started off at a
[00:50:15] church of England church. We said, "Oh, you know what? We go. We better go." He's invited us to church. He took the time. took a Sunday evening as well when he was meant to be leading the congregation. and he got the curate to take over that night and um he said um you never thought we least we can do really is is he's is um come around our house cast out these demons least we can do is go to church you know we're like oh yeah we'll just go once and and and that be it like you know we've done our bit then you know and uh we go into this this church or or we get to the doors we stand at the doorway and sort of arguing amongst ourselves oh we can't go in there we're bad like you know I don't know if we thought we was going to catch on fire or something you know we're like we're bad people. We can't go in there.
[00:50:56] And we're talking to we no we can't like you know and then all of a sudden someone it's a big old church doors and someone comes out the door's sort of a jar and they pull it open and you're all right you two. We're like oh we can't come in here we're we're bad people like we've done bad things we're not good like you people like and don't be silly come in and end up convincing us to come into the church. We go into the church and it was like amazing. It was like we've come home, you know. It was it was so amazing.
[00:51:24] It was a building full of these people that was just so encouraging and the even the worship we're thinking like come by my lord and all that sort of worship songs and you've got all these kind of trendy sort of worship songs playing and and uh I thought this is amazing. I really both loved it. You know we come out the building got in the car on on the way home and I can't remember I think one of us said to the other one like I really like that. Yes. So did I. Yeah. Should we come back next week? Yeah, let's come back next week.
[00:51:54] And it just kind of went from there and we just carried on coming every week and and then um we started doing what we called the double which was this woman introduced oursel in the kids school and said I hear you guys are give your life to Jesus you know cuz the church that we was part of was part of that you know connected with this school you know and uh said oh like you should come to our church and and then we started going there and it was really bizarre. I was talking about this the other day with someone. We was moving coming out of cops to estate going into this homeless hostel. Um and it was a real shock to the system. We had his and hers back then was um trendy like right trendy cars his and hers matching Freellanders I think it was Frelanders. Yeah. Smaller one. Yeah. The Jeeps and we had one of them. They took they repossessed the cars and that we weren't making the payments on them and like it was Yeah. It was a real shock.
[00:52:45] But God was even in that, you know, cuz we we got this money we should never have got and we bought used it to buy a little secondhand car and um weren't what we was used to, but you know, and then and then we're we're um getting sent to this homeless hostel and this woman saying to us, "My husband will come and help you move." When really, I've never even we've never even met the husband. Just spoke to to her in in the school when we're dropping the kids off. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no problem. And I'm like, "Oh, no. We can't expect him." Oh, no, no problem. You'd be happy to do it.
[00:53:15] It turns out now I hated police growing up, you know, it's just a just a thing, you know, because obviously you're c it's from criminals, isn't it? You know what I mean? To not like police, you know, and um and so I didn't really like the police. But it turns out this guy's a copper, right? He's a policeman. And and he's coming to help me move. He's never even met me. And I'm like, wow. So it started sort of opening my eyes up and and so he phones me up that evening after he's helped me. said, "So," cuz he took he's took a day off work, like holiday leave to come and help me as well, like you know. So, he said, he said, "Um, same time tomorrow then." I went, "Oh, no. That's okay." But he said, "What?
[00:53:57] Have you moved then? Have you done more since since I left?" I went, "Well, no." He said, "Well, you need my help then, don't you?" I went, "Well, yeah, I do." And so Tim, his name was Tim and Michelle, this couple um or they was a couple not together no more. Uh but yeah, he come and helped me uh helped me move twice and I thought he's done more for me than a lot of my family members and friends had done, you know, and I'd never even met him and he's a copper. So it just started changing my thinking about it, you know, and um and so it went from there, you know, things sort of progressed, you know, we we was saved Christians on fire for like 10 years and everything was um you know, we ended up getting a a a house which was uh where we are today. We got right to buy. We bought the house and everything which is amazing. God God was in every bit of it.
[00:54:46] Even in the homeless hostel, we got got us the car when we needed it. In the homeless hostel, he got us the um it was the top floor. It was a a converted loft. They it was a newly converted loft. No one had stayed in it. And it had its own bathroom. So we didn't have to share the bathroom with everyone else. We had our own bathroom. And people in there used to say we was like the pushing Pushing Becks of of Norway House in Northfield, you know, of the homes hostel. And uh he had it all done out of a so we hung a chandelier up and we had all these you know had it all done nice and stuff and uh so we got this house everything was all great and uh so we got really really bad depression like when when we when we lost our um our business she'd already started going down quite a bad path with it you know and uh was in quite a bad way but things sort of accelerated the more loss we had and more things was going wrong and you know uh the more the worse she got like you know in the end she ended up being under mental health with uh depression, anxiety,
[00:55:45] um OCD and insomnia. But she had a fifth one which she never even told me up till two or three years ago which when I started helping people myself with um say called intrusive thoughts where they get these demonic it's actually demonic thoughts you know in their mind but they think it's their own saying do bad things you know like you know sexually abuse a little child or their own children or you know do something really bad. really really demonic awful thoughts and they think it's their own but it's not you know and so she had that as well this I don't know what she never told me what her faults was but she had demonic thought these demonic faults and so um yeah things got really bad in the end she said I don't I I don't want to go to church no more she didn't even want to leave the house never mind go to church and our vicar had already left at that point he moved up to Southampton and it just wasn't the same and you know the Paul the curate blessing was running it for a little while then got a new vicar just wasn't the same like you know and so we stopped going to church and I I used to be like I wouldn't be able to go to church
[00:56:43] without Zowie like I used to feel so awkward you know and I would be like that now but back then it used to be feel so awkward to be on my own like you know and so uh it was we stopped going to church in the end we backslid you know we started um uh you know I started puffing again spoken which was a problem of mine on and off you know smoking weed by by then and it was a problem on and off for years, you know. I' I'd smoke it and then come off it again for a year or so and then go back to it again, you know, and so I started smoking again and, you know, I' kind of backslid and I done a couple of little things. Nothing major. It says as a dog returns to his vomit, you know, that's what I done. I kind of returned it to my vomit a little bit. Not full on to what I was doing, the manufacturing and all that stuff, but I did I drove for my mate, done a cut of drove a few times for him for a bit of weed and stuff. you know, I've done a bit of driving for it and couple of little bits and pieces. Then what happened was I started doing a um a grow um and I um yeah, I started doing a grow
[00:57:45] um like there was a guy that I knew was doing the grows again. I used to do them back in the day, but I had done them for a while and he had the equipment. I you know uh by this point I'm I'm out of work. I've got no work or nothing. my kids are like can't go to none of the school things because I've got no money and it was just got really really hard and I had that for for the first really 10 years of being a Christian you know and um so my wife um you know don't know then I started doing this this grow with this guy like he he got the cutings he got all the equipment he had and um and actually where I am now in our log cabin um in the back of our garden was where where I started doing this growing and um so and what was and a growers A cannabis.
[00:58:27] Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Growing grown cannabis basically in the back. Not me carrots and me cauliflowers me weed like me. Sorry. Yeah, make that clear. Um and so we started doing that, right? everything was going well with it, you know, but in this time I'm trying to look for work and everything and you know um I was kind of quite long-term out of work and had to sign on which was pretty embarrassing for me to do which I didn't do and but I started applying for all these jobs made a CV which I'd never had a CV before done that anyway I end up getting this job right back doing in the drainage business like cuz I used to work for Dino Rod and that you know I'm now got a job doing the same thing so I'm like oh I don't really need to be doing this grow anymore on, you know, I'm feeling guilty about it, you know, and um so but now I'm in it with someone else, their money, they've already put the money for the cutings and everything and I thought I have to at least do this one, you know, so I just carried on with
[00:59:26] it. Anyway, everything's going along fairly all right. We had a few little disasters with it with it to start the grow, but we kind of everything was going along. While I'm in the middle of doing this grow, I've got this job. I'm working with this French guy um who's like the mate kind of train labor and mate type of thing. I'm training him up and um working for this company and uh we've got a job in Forest Gate, right? So he knows what I used to do. He you know we'd have us draw together or whatever. I I knew about him because he he would done a little bit of buying and selling you know you together 10 hours a day or whatever it was in the van. So you talk about this stuff you know. So we've pulled it to Forest Gate. I went, "Oh, oh, that's mad." I said, "This road I used to I used to rent a house at it, Danny. I used to do my my my um factory, like, you know, for my drugs." And he went, "Oh, really?" He said, "What what house?" Like, and I said, "Oh, I can't remember the no what number?" I said,
[01:00:24] "Well, I can't remember the number, but it's that corner house." But he he used to keep the book while we're right driving along. He'd write the numbers and the addresses or whatever. He'd keep the book. And I went, "It's that h big house on the corner." So, as we're pulled up next to the door, it's the house we're working at. We're getting a job at the very, very same house. Not just the house where I've done my grows, but the house where I promised God and said to him, "I Lord, get me out of this and I'll promise you I'll never sell drugs again now growing them to what am I going to do? I'm going to be selling them." You know what I mean? And so, it's like, "Oh, I made a promise to God." Like, you know, and now now I'm doing this. And to me, all the hairs in the back of my neck and my arms and everything all stood up. It was like it was like the chance of that happening was like a a lottery win. Yeah. If you think about it, we covered um all of the inside of the M25 and just outside some of the home counties as well. We covered as well. Pretty wide area with millions and millions.
[01:01:22] About 8 million people. Oh, what? Just in the M25 is it? I think it's about 8 million people in that area. So, you can imagine the amount of houses that are like what the chances of that. Wow. Wow. I was actually doing the grow as well while it was on, you know, and we hadn't even done a don't finish that first one. And so, um, we're doing this grow. So, I'm like, wow. And I'm And now we're going to the house. The house was rented out like what it was when I I rented it, but I'm meeting I'm who am I meeting? they're going to recognize me because the landlord and the landlord's son, you know, they they knew it's quite a few years later and by now I grew my hair out, you know, a bit not right long. It was a bit shorter than what it is now, but it was longer than what it was and maybe I look a bit different, I'm hoping. And but it was the landlord's son that met me there on site and I'm like talking to Oh yeah, you're right. Trying to be all casual and and and maybe he didn't recognize me, you know, and because he didn't well didn't
[01:02:19] say nothing anyway. And and there was nothing to really catch me on anyway because we'd already got think not not you again. Yeah. I'm like yeah he must have if he didn't he must think it's him again. But I did meet the guy that night which I forgot to say. I met the the managing agent that night and gave him the month's rent. So in reality I was the one you know I was kind of lost out really. You know what I mean? And so um uh they had really lost nothing. So anyway I I've come away from that thinking that's that's got to be God. like he's he's like, you know, he's he's brought me back to that house to show me about my so much for your promise, you know, and so I'm carrying on puffing a little bit after that after this happened. Again, I can't really remember the frame time frame, especially where I was puffing at that point that my mind's a bit more hazy, but it weren't that long after that, a week or two after that. What had happened was I used to grow them in the pots. Yeah. Sometimes you can have how I used to do it before that um but was in the water like you had a pump and it's
[01:03:18] pumped with water you know hydroponics but this one you you have to grow lights but you have have them in the grow pots so each night you'd have to go and water it so it wouldn't dry out and so I'd be working like really long hours with his company sometimes 10 12 hours uh shifts you know like long hours out early back late you know so I'd be this particular night I got home like 9 10 at night I'm really tired I'm come down to the log cabin I'm I'm standing I come down, I roll a joint up, have a little puff of the joint, um have a little puff, and then I start watering them, you know, and um so I'm standing just having a puff and I'm in the middle of the lock cabin and um I'm standing, funny enough, I'm facing this way. This the length of the lock cabin goes like that. I'm standing kind of in the middle of log cabin looking to the back just just sort of in a bit of a trance really you know just tired and that as I'm looking and just just spoken I seen say again out the corner of my eye same as what happened to me the day and the police where the police went past and as I've looked it was the maddest thing there's like a
[01:04:16] a doorway there but the door was shut where it came came through something came through the doors cuz I see this image it was like the only way I can describe bit is when the oldfashioned movies that I mean I don't know I don't really watch ghost movies or anything like that no more because of obviously what I do and what you can get from them um like demons uh and so I don't watch that stuff now but back in the day in the 80s and 90s and that they'd show if they showed a ghost they'd have all the torn old rag clothes on where they've been dead so long their clothes have gone like rags sort of ripped and that and and it was floating yeah this thing floated through the front of the log cabin through the closed doors and it went like this and it was it was looking this direction and it went look that way look that way, look that way again, then look forward and just went straight out the back where there was just a wall.
[01:05:08] There weren't no I mean now I've got double doors, French doors put in there now, but there wasn't nothing back then and it just flew straight through and I was freaked out and I'm thinking that's where I had a path. No, no, it's where it's where I'm stoned and that you know what I mean. No, no, I'm imagining it. You know, at first it was fresh and it was like, "Oh, I was just seeing a ghost." Like, you know, but but the more I thought about it, the more obviously the enemy is saying, "No, no, it's just your imagination." You know, and and also more I'm trying to convince myself I didn't see that, you know, and uh so the next the next morning when I wake up, as I as I wake up, I don't it might have been on a Saturday morning. Yeah, I think it was that was a Friday night and a Saturday morning when I wake up. Um my my I'm talking to my wife Zowie and I'm telling her what's happened and then my daughter Nancy gets up. Yeah. She was only I don't know how old she'd have been. Five or six at the time, something like that. She comes up and she goes, "Oh, mom, dad, I had a really funny
[01:06:05] dream last night." Yeah. I said, "Oh, did you babe? What was that then?" She said, "Yeah, what it was? I had a dream that this man and he had all rags on." describe what I see flew through my um uh bedroom wall and then flew straight out the back wall and it was like wow I did see that and it was like Lord could the Lord would have known that the enemy would try and convince me like the devil would try and convince me that I never see what I see and then also he knows that my own brain would have probably said the same talk myself out of it. So he he he um confirmed it through my daughter Nancy what what she actually dreamed was exactly what I seen you know and this is how it went. So I had had this warning from God like you know and I'm I'm back doing this stuff. It was like he sent I believe now that that was an angel described in a way like he let me see this angel in a way that I could comprehend it and not be totally probably have a heart attack on the step cuz if I see a big angel with big sword
[01:07:03] I'll be you know it's come for me to take me you know or whatever. So he let me see see it how I could comprehend it you know and um and so this is what I had going on. I mean, I still, believe it or not, I know I know that some of your listeners going to be listening and thinking, "Nah, no way. We surely would have stopped then, but I still felt obliged and continued and finished doing the grow." You I still finished it. But obviously after that, I said to my mate, "Come and take your gear and like there was a smell of the weed in the streets.
[01:07:32] There was neighbors saying, "I can smell weed. I'm going to call the police and all that, you know, and all this going on. It was just a real stressful uh time of doing it, you know, and um and so after that I just stopped. I was still having a puff, you know, and this this kind of went on. I think I even had to sniff a coat a few times as well, which was bizarre because I'd already way given up um taking sniffing coat like before like I even had kids. It was the ease and stuff I give up when I got with Zowie in there or when I had Scarlet. Um and so it was mad. It was like I was going back to how this stuff appear and I was going right downhill you know and then this kind of went on for three years. I did end up stopping stopping the coat but I was carrying on puffing and then one day my daughter Scarlet said we're going to church. I said oh yeah babe like we brought them up. We didn't make them now. I was sort of like no make them come to church. And Zo's like no no if we do that we'll turn them off for good. If they don't want to go let them stay and by that time they was a bit older then and let let them stay and they don't have to come know. And so
[01:08:30] Scarlet starts going to church and she's getting set on fire from from God meaning like you know she's getting the presence of God is like fire they saying this and she's getting she's right pressing in with God basically that's what it means by setting him setting on fire getting pressing in with God she's getting set on fire for God and we're like wow and I said to Zowie babe I think we should go back to church she said I've been thinking the same like we we should and so we went to church um Zowie's still really been ill with her depression and anxiety and everything.
[01:09:00] We go to this church and I well I used to b when I was younger, hence hence my nose. Uh, and I used and this guy that I I'd bump into now and again was a Christian and you know how you getting on and oh blow blow and I said I'm not a church no more and you know and anyway I bumped into him this particular I'm back at church like he said you know what he phoned me up a few days later he said me and my girlfriend we're going to come to the church about this church in Bishop Stalford and so I said oh okay he comes and it turns out she's a prophetess she clicked with Zowie they get really well and exchange numbers and um God's already spoken to this girl about about us and everything and about Zowie and they go for a coffee. I think it was like um I can't forget the name of it now, but like one of the chains that you'd know like know and and they're sitting in there and the girl said to to this prophetess said like prophetes basically someone that speaks to God you know and she said um uh do you know why I'm here and so he went yeah I think I do you come here to deliver me to which means
[01:09:57] to cast out this demon you know and and she went yeah I have because at that point it don't normally go like this sometimes it's no big deal get a demon out it's a little cough they feel nothing comes out. No big deal. But sometimes there's what we call manifestations where where they'll feel it, you know, and they'll know what's going on. And so Zowie had this she she felt this thing like almost doing cartwheels inside of that nervous cuz they know what's going to happen that they're going to get c kicked out. So So she kicks out these demons. Zowie gets completely healed. Now bear in mind, it was only like a year or so before that.
[01:10:33] I'd gone to the doctor and I was talking to the doctor about some of his depression and everything said Mr. Ky very polite Asian girl Mr. Ky Mrs. Ky will never come off them tablets said no no I wonder she no no Mr. She'll never come off them because there's that the particular one of the particular tablets she was on has got something in it. He said that it changes something in your brain. I don't know what that is, but he said it changes something in your brain. You can't come off them. Think like addictive or whatever is maybe what he meant. I don't know.
[01:11:02] And so I said, "Really?" Anyway, now Zowie's got powerfully delivered. God told her, "Come off your medication." Right? So that's what she done. She listened to God, not the doctor. She listened to God's report, not the doctor's report. come off her medication and she's been off her medication to this day. Yeah. And this is years years and years. I don't know. It's been 10 back 10 years. Yeah. Just over 10 years since she she she gave up her medication. Now, I've not recommended that someone just does that, you know, unless if God tells them that's different. You got to bring it bring it to God in prayer and say, "Lord, is it is it your will for me to come off this medication?" And if the Lord says, "Yeah, then then listen to the Lord." And so she comes off the medication. We're like, "What you mean to tell me?" It's just a dirty demon all this time. There's been dirty demons causing these problems affecting our whole life. You know, me and the we have to walk on eggshells every time we ran.
[01:11:55] She's having an episode. You know, you say one wrong word. She'd analyze it for three days. But why did you say, "Babe, I'm stuck in traffic. I've just had the y I'm sorry. Please forgive me." And she like, "But why did you say it?" Like, you know, for it'd be like sometimes for days, you know. she wouldn't be able to get it out of her mind. You know, it was like analyzing spirits. And so, we're like, "This is amazing." So, we're bringing all these different people to this girl and she's cast out demons and helping people. People are getting healed and you know, she had a real powerful gift and we're like, "This is amazing." Then, one day we went to see this uh Robin Alice Creswell. This is where he's stepping into the supernatural side of it now. Right. Can I can I just can I can I just have you like explain what is deliverance from a biblical standpoint?
[01:12:41] So So basically uh Jesus third they reckon they estimate a third of his um ministry 25% to a third was casting out demons you know so a lot of the times a lot of the problems that we have in our life is demon related. Now look there ain't a demon under every bush. Well there probably is actually but but you know what I mean. It ain't like we can't blame demons on it. Oh, it's a demon that made me do it. Honestly, you know, you know, cuz because we still got free will, but they can greatly have an impact on our lives, on our health, on our me mental health, um you know, on on things in general, you know, they can affect our life. But even if it ain't a demon that caused it to begin with, which quite often it they can be the cause of our problems, you know, through uh childhood trauma, uh abuse, if we're feel rejected, um uh and then the biggest problem we deal with is people in which I'll come back on to in a little while is um unforgiveness. So it
[01:13:40] isn't just what happened to us, it's how we deal with it to whether whether you're going to be trauma like whether you're gonna have trauma or not, you know. Um but getting traumatized is one thing but uh you know be having that trauma remain is how you how you deal with it. You know sometimes just going to say what deliverance is we call it deliverance in the Christian world. In uh the Catholic world they call it exorcism which is um basically uh the removal of them them spiritual beings. They're basically um uh spirits without a body you know and they inhabit our body. After that we're like wow this is amazing. like you know we we can help people. We just bringing people to this lady. But then one day um we went to to uh this amazing couple called uh Rob and Alice Cres Creswell uh northern couple amazing and um uh they was doing a one-day workshop and there was quite a few of us went went to this workshop and it was a whole day of a teaching and
[01:14:39] then they do a practical side of it. Okay, partner up with two people that you don't know. There's quite a lot of people there and practice you know it' be words of knowledge or it'll be you know praying for healing or you know any of this sort of stuff words of knowledge is basically a word from from from God that will give you a word about the person's situation or whatever to encourage them with and so uh or prophesying you know proclaiming the word of God again. And so um one part of it one very small part of it was casting out demons. So they gave us this this teaching on it, you know, who should be casting out demons and why and everything else and which is all Christians should be casting out demons and um and so uh and then and then we're paired up with two people and and I got paired up with two women and I'm trying to cast out a demon of them. I don't think as far as I know that I necessarily had any victory that day.
[01:15:28] But the very next day we come off we come off this um after doing this course we're fired up. boy like, "Oh yeah, let's let's go and practice all this stuff we've learned." At the time, we was praying. I mean, not that we don't do it now, but at the time, we was a lot more active with this because now obviously we got we've got a church and stuff, you know, but we was praying for people. We was leading them to the Lord. Uh we was baptizing them in our tiny little bathroom with a little shower screen that get in the way like he's in the bath and um and was carrying out what's called the great commission. And um so this one particular lady come around. He baptized her. She said she had depression. We're like, "Oh, it's a demon." You know, like, which it ain't always, you know, sometimes it's chemical imbalance and sometimes it's um what they call them things hormone hormone replacement. So sometimes you need to get hormone replacement, especially if you're going through the change. Um and so u we're like, "Yes, a demon. Let's let's pray for him."
[01:16:20] There's me, Zowie, and our friend Jeannie, um who's a Christian that hasn't quite took the same journey as us. And we're in the front room going, "Hang on, didn't they say this?" And it's so DIY and we really like and so unprofessional. Yeah, but didn't she say this and didn't he say that? And we're, oh, yeah, they did. Let's try that. You know, we're practicing, but we managed to get, you know, quite a few demons out of her. And, um, and that's how it started. And then we we started our journey the same as you, um, Aaron, as we found, uh, brother Derek Prince, who's an amazing man of God, a mighty man, super intellectual, amazing man. Mo most um ministries out there teach one or two parts one part of their ministry of his stuff. Amazing man of God. And um and so we we start watching his stuff.
[01:17:03] We're binge watching it one after the other back to back watching it. It was the only real one back then that was really teaching on it. One or two others but barely anyone, you know, and and and then that's how it come about. We just pressed in on the supernatural and it just grew really. We was we was obedient. We wasn't talking to anyone about, you know, was anyone we thought might need deliverance. We're like, "Yeah, we're we're helped because we just couldn't wait to help people." It was amazing feeling, you know, and and it just progressed from there. And and um one day completely on fire for the Lord basically. Uh and one thing I'll say is about um demons and deliverance. You know, this is straight from Jesus in the Bible. He said, you know, go go out, cast out demons, uh heal the sick. And this is what Jesus did as his ministry, wasn't it? Is again, not saying there's no place for doctors, nurses, all the rest of it, but this stuff, you know, if you've never heard of demons and this is the first time, I would, you know, I was a super skeptical person like the I like
[01:18:01] I just put that aside and I say, "Well, let me just go in and understand and study and learn." Um, and when I did that, when I went to what the Bible said and what Jesus said, and then I saw countless people, um, you know, being set free from these, you know, depression, anxiety, addictions, you know, it gets to the point where like you're like, okay, this is real. Like you you get it's like there's no way it can't be real. Anyway, I'll hand it back over to you, Kev, because um, take us back to, you know, what happened next in your deliverance ministry journey. where it kind of just exploded like like what it did when I was in the enemy camp. It just increased and increased and increased. It was like what happened with with the deliverance, you know, where it's just sort of just the occasional person and then before we knew it, it was like most days we was casting out demons. We don't do as much of that now because we do we're running obviously, yeah, it's kind of progressed from then. We've got a church now and everything else, but it just it just
[01:18:59] increased. And then one day um my wife Zowie said, "Oh, you know what? I really feel from the Lord that we should start doing these meetings, you know, and there's a old church um 700 year old church at the back of us and like we live in the countryside, you know, and um it's literally in the middle of these fields." And uh she said, "I know maybe I wonder if we can get that." And we kind of knew a couple of the guys that was um part one of them was part of the dasis that's like this runs a part of the um network of churches Church of England churches Randia and um and you know we asked them they said yeah we'll look into it for you and they come back and yeah next thing we're doing our meetings there and we've done our first meeting we by this point you know cast out quite a lot of demons and helped a lot of people and was kind of getting a bit of a name for um doing this particular stuff because there's not really a lot of people that are doing is a real lack which is a real shame because it was just part and parcel of the early church. They would it was just
[01:19:56] they would all be cast demons. It was just part and parcel of of what they done. But it's not not so much these days. And um and so um there was but there's such a need. So many people are struggling with addictions and um you know mental illness and all different sorts of stuff. and and so, you know, we we've been able to help a lot of different people as we've gone along and we've seen people get set free of all different things, you know, like crack cocaine to mental illness and intrusive thoughts, which is one that's really on my heart. Um because I I think a lot of people commit suicide because of intrusive thoughts. And sometimes people say, I don't know what was the matter with them. You know, they they was really happy and they never mentioned nothing and one minute they was all right and next minute they they've killed theelves. I don't know what could have happened. I believe um I could be wrong, but I believe that that's intrusive faults because um you know they they're they're too ashamed to talk about these faults that they're
[01:20:53] getting and they think they're our own faults which they're not. So anyone that's hearing this that has got intrusive thoughts, that's the first big key, you know, you're halfway through to being delivered is just knowing that it's not your faults, they're demon faults, you know, and um and so there's a bit of a process to getting set free from that. Um, but it's basically what I'd normally do is I ask the Lord to show the person like I say, "Father God, just show them where it came in, you know, where where it first started and then you'll remember a time." A lot of the time it gets him or the main way it gets in is through fear and then the Lord just bring you back to a time when maybe you got really terrified and scared and show you that and then then you need to repent for your agreement of that and then forgive whoever's connected with it because generally there's someone to be forgiven and then and then you cast the demons out and that's basically how it is. It's fairly straightforward but it's um sometimes a little little bit more involved than that. But yeah, this is what we've been used for. Different stuff and it's just increased. And we we've at the present
[01:21:51] where we rent a building. The the friends, the couple I told you about at the beginning, Michelle and Tim, uh they was we've been friends of that church since we first got saved. And um we're now renting their church. We go there like we do a meeting every two weeks which is in Debton in Essex. And um yeah, we're do doing like every two weeks at the moment till God says go and then we'll be doing full-time ministry. So that's kind of how it's progressed really. And it's um it's just yeah we've had lots of wonderful things happen um with it and it's and it's exciting you know like people go oh how boring being a Christian like it's not it is for some depending what type of Christianity you're doing you know if you're doing the full gospel Christianity which you're meant to be because otherwise it's another gospel for a start and um and it's really really exciting we see like amazing wonderful things happen.
[01:22:41] Tell me about tell us what are some of the the early stories of seeing deliverance you know the the the the or or know um you know times where somebody's had a you know an issue obviously Zowie you've explained that and you you know talked about that but who else would you come to mind of people that have had deliverance and then healing okay so um when during COVID lockdown I was praying for quite a lot of different people and a lot of them was addicts like you Um I I had a lot less understanding for the addicts then of what you know obviously you go along and you realize it ain't just about casting out demons.
[01:23:20] I used to think that you could cast out the spirit of addiction and cocaine and they'd be set free from a cocaine addiction and it's not quite um as easy as that. You you need to deal with the root of the problem. So I was praying for Martin as well as all other people at the time and um you know he he obviously got a lot of demons cast out and you know he had some success with it. Um but for some reason we kind of lost contact for um a few years now maybe four years or something like that and uh Martin turned back up and he said oh Kev like you know managed to find your number lost it and everything else and he said oh you know um we want to come uh and meet up with you guys. I said, "Well, we're doing a church if you you know, we do we run a church now. If you want to come come to that, come and meet us there." And so that's what happened. So Martin and Cara, his his wife, came to the meeting. Um yeah, it was yeah, pretty pretty good meeting as as always. And uh and the Lord turned up, you know, and I I noticed that Martin had herinades and you know, he
[01:24:20] had one in each ear. And um so I'm like, "Okay, so I'm definitely going to be praying for him, mate." You know what I mean? we see anything like that, it's like right, let's pray for him like we believe the Lord's going to set him free. It it doesn't always happen every time, but um sometimes it does happen, you know, and uh and so I've said to Martin, so I'm talking to him. He'd already had a bit of powerful deliverance with um him and his wife and it was kind of we don't generally do it from the platform. Normally, it's one-on-one at the end, you know, but this particular meeting, I think he manifested or one of them manifested, so we we cast them out and it's pretty pretty powerful. And so then I want to sat next to him.
[01:24:57] What? Let me just say what does manifest mean for people listening. Sorry. Manifest means to to make evident, you know, like it's like for instance what happened with Zowie, my wife, where um all of a sudden she started feeling like moving about inside her body. That's one type of manifestation. Or the person could start getting angry or like or scared because they're feeling the emotions of the demon and they think it's their own but it's the demons. You see that makes sense. So yeah, you were saying with mine, I think he was he was explaining. Yeah. So it just it just had all this powerful stuff happen. And um so that was good on its own, you know, and uh and then um I said to him, "Ah, brother, do I just noticed you got hearing aids?
[01:25:38] Would you mind if I pray for you?" And so he said, "Yeah, all right, lovely." Like, you know, he said, "Yeah, that'd be great." So I started praying for him. But I don't normally like my wife Zowie will get like sometimes she'd get this surge going through her body and quite often the people would be laid out on the floor, you know, um sometimes unconscious. Sometimes they just what's called going over in the spirit. They'd go over on the floor, you know. So and some people that don't believe it and they're like, "Oh, I didn't believe that even happened." You know what I mean? So that's kind of proof to them when they're going over in the power of God. And um so I got this surge while we were both sitting down, you know, but I got this surge going through my body and I said, "Oh, I felt that that time." I said, "Oh, I did." He went, he said, "Yeah, so did I." Like I thought, you know, really felt felt that. And I said, "Thanks definitely happened." And so we we we prayed a pretty simple prayer really. Wasn't you know, don't have to be a big religious prayer, you know, that they probably tend to work less to be honest
[01:26:36] with you. Yeah. Because it's it's it's about God really. It's not us doing it. We're just in agreement with God and it's about faith. It's our faith, you know, that activates it. And so I done this prayer and uh I I said, "No, I think something's definitely happened there." And um so anyway, he said he felt a difference immediately. He felt like um he felt an improvement, but he had his hearing aids in. And then the the next day I spoke to him when he got home because um you know a couple of hours later I spoke to him and then I spoke to him again the next day and he said Kev like I feel like massive change like he said like it's almost back to normal like that's amazing you know and then um what happened was I prayed for him again. He said I said a pray and and I'm like did I? and and he he told me all this stuff I'd said and I like wow I don't even remember saying part of it you know it's completely just the Holy Spirit took over about his inner eard drum and it was like a tech a bit technical for me nor just like be healed
[01:27:35] type of thing you know and it was bit technical what I was praying and and it was about his inner eard drum and and the parts I can't even remember now what what he said but it basically he got um uh more or less it was I don't know like 50% or something improvement I mean I'm just summising because something like that and then the second day um was a massive improvement again but he said it was still a tiny bit not 100% back to normal and he said so what he done was he decided I'm going to step out in faith for this I've definitely had a massive healing so I'm going to throw away the herinades so he throws away the herinades and he said the last bit come back 100% uh got his hearing back which is amazing so when when I was I didn't really know the full story about his hearing then and I still didn't know even like months and months months after it was you that told me Aaron, wouldn't it when the the last little bit I knew he'd had operations and that um and he said that his his ear the the the openings of his ears was quite wide like
[01:28:35] you know suppose I don't know how they operate but I'm assuming it's something to do with that but it was was quite wide on both his ears and he said brother it's really this is like the next day when I spoke to him he said it's even mad even my ear the holes in my ears have gone like smaller like they've they've closed up more you know what I more more normal like you know and um and it and it turns out he said that the hearing aids that you'd have to wear was basically if he's talking to say me and Aaron yeah the three you know three or four people talking he long as everyone was fairly talking clearly he could understand them but if there was any distractions in the background any background noise going on or if there was more people than that he said he wouldn't be able to hear properly what people were saying and he he said he put subtitles was years ago somehow put subtitles on his telly. So, I've got to work out how to get rid of the subtitles there. It's been so long since we've had them on the telly and um because he said he wouldn't be able to hear the telly properly with he'd have to have
[01:29:32] subtitles to be able to hear hear what was being um said on the telly. I said, "Brother, it's it's one one band size to that. You're going to be able to hear your misses moaning from now on. You're gonna hear it. You won't be able to cop it anymore." Like, and um and so uh yeah, it's just amazing. Glory to God what you've done. What was even more uh mind-blowing to me was he'd had multiple operations on both ears and they removed all the the small bones from the inside of his ears. Not only did they, you know, he didn't even have the mechanics to make it work. He woke up in the morning and they was working completely fully and been regenerated. Um I think you know that was you know the the the most amazing uh you know mind-blowing thing about it all is not only got his hearing back but um a creative miracle in his ears and and kind of uh gave back his his missing parts that the operation uh couldn't fix really. So there was also a lady that came to your meetings quite re recently. Are you able to share that story with um the lady who had difficulty breathing?
[01:30:30] Basically uh for 40 years um she had asthma uh how she got it to start with which is quite a mad one really. Um I think she was seven or eight I think it was. I can't really remember the age but I'm sure it's something like that. And uh she said and there was this kid come to school and this kid had an asthma pump and she said oh um but this kid's getting all the attention. So she's like, "Oh, I've got asthma." And they went, "No, you're not. You're lying. You ain't got asthma." And she, "Yeah, I have." And she took this asthma pump. I think she pretended to do a she she went, "Yeah, I have. Give me the asthma pump. I I'll show you." And she pretended to do like a fake breath on it. And um after that, she actually got asthma and and she was so bad she was under um the hospital with it as well.
[01:31:17] And she'd think in the end I think she said the last two or three years or something it was getting really really bad where she'd have like bad attack like like getting hospitalized because of it cuz it was getting worse and worse and she started thinking to herself well you know what like I'm getting out of breath just doing a few steps now and she started thinking well at least I'll be able to get about if I get a mobility scooter and things like that. So, she started already coming to terms with the fact that, you know, that that's where it is heading because it got a lot worse over the last two or three years. And so, I prayed for her. Um, you know, and I I just said, you know, she was on, I think was three two or three three asthma pumps, I think it was per day.
[01:31:56] Different different ones and all different med medication that wasn't even working anymore, like all strong stuff. I think one of them she said done a little bit, but it didn't work properly, but it done a little bit for her. and um and yeah prayed for her and God healed her you know because it's not me obviously I I can't heal no one. I could cause problems sometimes with people but I can't I can't um I can't heal no but God can you know and you know just I'm always say I'm really happy and honored just to be saved. I'm just happy to be saved. Never mind the fact that God does use me um to you know to do miracles and different things with people and it's it's yeah it's lazy it is. And so we've seen all different things happen. Um but we've got another lady called Karen who um is on the we've got like a surgery bit and um she come to one of our meetings we we was doing which we've not done for a while. No one actually prayed for this Karen. She was my wife's uh dental receptionist and she'd heard that Zowie prayed for the the
[01:32:56] dental assistants that the the dentist assistant. Yeah. She prayed for her to break off curses because she was accident prone. And even the dentist was like, "Wow." Yeah. Like, yeah, I must admit she's like completely she's not making doing accidents anymore and she's like a different person like you know. And so it went round the dental surgery about what had happened with Zowie. And so they was waiting for her to come in and then and then when she come in this recept two receptionists and they say, "Oh, could you pray for us?" And in the end they she prayed from they they're like um they were truth seekers like you know and um which how a lot of people find God through the new age and all that stuff. And um and so she said, "Oh, what like we come to your meeting?" They come to the meeting and while she was there, Karen, she 28 years before she had a bad riding accident where she'd come off her horse and she broke her back and she said every day for 28 years she's been in pain. And so some serious stuff, you know, and um she said um but she come to the meeting and we did do like a we sometimes do them at our um
[01:33:55] church service meeting as well, like we do a healing section where we're just doing mass healing. you know, put your hand on wherever you need to be healed and God's going to heal you and that type of thing. And sometimes we call out backs or whatever the Holy Spirit leads us to do. And um and so we prayed and and I believe we may have mentioned backs, I can't really remember. And um but she got powerfully healed. Powerfully healed. All the back pains are gone. And now she comes and she's she um helps she she sort of volunteers and helps on on the section with making tea and coffee but also she brings all lovely food and her and her friend and they won't let us take no won't take no money from us and we're give you no money know it's like giving back and everything and they come and it's amazing you know we've got different people that have come through the ministry little Katie that got powerfully delivered and set free and different people that come and serve they they get set free first and then they come want to serve and give back which is amazing you know and so we did seeing different people like that really
[01:34:54] you know incredible yeah I uh one of my favorite stories from the book is uh the the lady who you baptized the lady um you know who couldn't conceive um and I read that and I was you know really touched me because hearing that you know she'd been struggling to you know she'd struggle have children for years right two powerful things happened. One of one of them is I've got the video uploaded, but I keep forgetting to ask permission for the girl. I'm sure she'd be all right to put her video up. And so it was um it was it was a lady called Pastor Divine who we're good friends uh you know, been good friends with um her for quite a while now. And um so she's got her own ministry up in Shaness and she said, "Oh, I'm doing a a baptism in the sea and would you guys like to team up with us and we do?" We said, "Yeah, no worries." So we teamed up with them, went down there. It was mainly her people getting baptized, but it just God really moved powerfully like you know
[01:35:52] and um this particular girl came up she said um but before she come into the seat or as she was walking to towards us to come into the seat was we called her up next um pastor Divine said to me, "Oh Kev, like that's that's to me a guy called Robert who's part of our ministry as well said, oh this girl coming up uh she she's been really sad. She'd been trying to have a baby and um I think she kept miscarriaging. Yeah. So I said, "Oh, okay." Just sometimes I prefer people don't tell me, you know what I mean? Cuz then obviously if the Holy Spirit gives you something, it's like, you know, and this is what happened. So as she comes into the water, we start praying for her. Uh we baptize her. I think I think it was after the baptism we started um praying and uh and then I just I just went into like warfare mode you know and I start saying I come against all witchcraft and I break off all witchcraft off your life and and stuff like that. I can't remember the exact details, but it's on the video which we will I will be posting at one
[01:36:50] point and um and so it was all I was coming against this witchcraft and then I I felt the Lord say pray a blessing over the fruit of her womb and I'm like in my mind I'm like oh Lord I can't can't say that pass the divine and Rob's going to think I'm only saying it because she told me you know what I mean you know it's not like but I'm like oh okay Lord I'm not going to be disobedient to the Lord so I've done what he said you know so I was like I I'll bless the fruit of your womb and now she's like she's going hysterical like she's like oh I've got this word from God like I feel actually get emotional thinking about it really but she's got this word from God and you know and I'm like oh I don't want to deceive her like but I've spoke it out anyway God told me to say it so I've done it you know and um and so it was yeah really powerful and and that was that anyway few months later well quite quite a while I think it was like over a year or so later a year and a half something like that um we've gone to pastor divine ordination. I think at the time she was a minister, now she's
[01:37:48] got ordained, you know, and so we've gone to the ordination and this lady come up and said to me, "Oh, do you remember me?" And I went, "Uh uh uh." Cuz me being me with when it comes to memory and stuff sometimes, I'm like, "Uh." And she went, "You know, you baptized me in the city." I went, "Oh yeah, but I kind of still didn't remember the details of it. I thought vaguely remembered, but didn't really remember the details." She, "Yeah, don't you remember? Like, um, you the Lord gave you, and it was definitely from the Lord," she says. And I'm like, "Oh, no.
[01:38:16] I'm cringing now." He said, "It's definitely from the law cuz you knew about my me not being able to have kids." And you know, he said, and I'm like, "I'm cringing a bit." She said, "Well, let me tell you what happened." She said, "Two months after you prayed for me and I got baptized." She said, "My two aunties died." And I went, "I'm so sorry to hear that." And I'm thinking, "I hope she ain't blaming me for her aunties dying out, you know." She went, "Yeah." I went, "I'm really sorry." She said, "No, no, that's fine." She said because me and my husband have believed for a long time that my two aunties was putting witchcraft on me like they're African descent these these ladies and and she said that um not that it makes them more more likely to be witches but obviously it's quite prevalent within the African culture of they're going to see the sanguma or whoever it's just normal to go and see a witch doctor is like the witch doctor sort of stuff like is that kind of similar to like I don't really know like voodoo and you know that that that sort of similar that's a little bit more heavy duty because a lot of them are going to
[01:39:13] do oh like money spells or it's quite innocent even Christians they it not always but quite often within African culture they'll still worship ancestors or they still go and see a sanangum like which is like a type of witch doctor and then get them to um oh you know my neighbors upset me can you curse them or can you can you can you even if they're not doing nothing bad like that they're paying you know for money or I want to get a husband or a wife can you or I want needed to have a male son or whatever it be you know they come see them and it's part of their culture, you see. So, um, but that's that's not of God. That's, you know, that's that's the issue, right?
[01:39:52] From the enemy. Yeah. Badly. Um, so, but this this these ladies was doing wickedness. Yeah. So, um, we went went to the ordination, Pastor Divine's ordination, and this lady comes up to me and says, "Do you remember me?" And I'm like, uh, being with my memory and stuff, I can be sometimes it's quite embarrassing sometimes, but I'm like, um, and she went, you know, you baptized me and everything. And I'm like, oh yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I kind of vaguely remember, didn't know the details. Anyway, she said, um, yeah, what happened was, she said, um, after you prayed for me, she said, two months after you prayed for me, my two aunties died. And I went, oh no, I'm really sorry about that. I don't think she don't think it's my fault because of this prayer I've done or whatever. And so she said um no no she said me and my husband believed that my two aunties was putting witchcraft on us.
[01:40:42] And she said she said um which you know basically putting curses on us so she couldn't have have a have a child. And so I'm like oh okay. And she said yeah. And um she said they died within two months. She said three months after you prayed for me. She said I fell pregnant. And she said, "And this is my son, baby Moses." She called him and all Moses like coming up out of the sea, you know. I'm like, "Wow, that's amazing." Like, and it was just just a beautiful story. And she said, and I was with Zowie was standing with me and all. And she said, um, she said, "Would you mind pay praying a blessing on my son?" I said, "Of course I will." You know, and I started praying a blessing on him. And and I really felt that um the Lord was saying his name's Moses, but there's a Moses anointing on him as well. and that uh the Lord I believe was saying that he's he's called to save his people to to rescue his people from captivity of the enemy, you know. And so obviously Moses come because the Egyptians was enslaved the the Jewish people. But I
[01:41:40] believe that he's called for the Christians to to see the Christians get set free from spiritual bondage. So he's going to be in ministry basically is what I believed. And so uh Zowie give another I can't remember what it was that Zowie said, but she said something else. She got word of knowledge from God and the girl was crying and yeah, really powerful. So yeah, God's really good, you know, and he's he's um killed off a couple of his of her aunties in the process of of what happened. But obviously if you're doing wickedness, you know, you got to expect wickedness to fall back on you. And in breaking them prayers, sometimes if you're trying to put curses on a w curses of witchcraft on a Christian, got to be careful because it can bounce back on you, you know. So yeah, serious serious stuff.
[01:42:23] Is there any other any any other testimonies of like uh deliverance or healing that you want to share before we wrap up? Yeah. So, so, so I just want to quickly say about um about the um you know that ladies not being able to have children. If if that's you and you're like, "Yeah, well, we struggle there." It's generally always got this from Derek Prince, you know, it's where I originally learned this from. He says it's generally always a curse of some description. Yeah. So you need to pray against the curse. Repent for any agreement with the enemy and say, "Father God, I just pray Lord that because the Lord says be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth." So we know that that's a blessing from God. So if if there's any reason why you can't have a child, that's that's generally what the reason is is because uh there's a curse. So you need to pray. It ain't a big religious prayer. Just pray to break the curse. and um and then and then ask the Lord and then start thanking the
[01:43:20] Lord for blessing the fruit of your womb. It's it's pretty pretty straightforward really. Um so what else? Uh I'll probably tell you this one then um uh to wrap up. So my dad um had a cousin called Peter. It's when my dad was still alive quite quite a few a few years ago. And um he was um very fit, always out on his bike and everything and uh with his friend, you know, his racing bike or whatever. And um and so he ended up they went on one of them, you know, the bike track things, circuit things. And and his friend said, "I've had enough. I'm going there." I'm going to hang about a bit longer, you know.
[01:43:55] Anyway, he's left him on his own. No one else is there. He ends up having a stroke even though he's very fit. And um now he's in a coma. My dad was telling me about it. I said, "Oh, dad, do you think you know me it'd be okay for me and Zowie to go and visit him, you know, because we want to pray for him, like for him to come out the coma." And so, um, my dad says, "Yeah, you know, I'm sure sure it'd be all right. He'll have to ask his sisters." Now, one of his sisters was, um, into new age and stuff as well, and I think that's the one I spoke to. And, um, so I asked, "Is it okay, you know, we want to go and pray for her?" So, she said, "Oh, yeah. um you know, yes, okay, to go and visit her, but that there was up north of England. We're in we're in the south of England right now. And um so we took this long drive and on the way up there, it gave us plenty of time to to pray about it. And um so as we was praying, I really felt that the Lord, it wasn't like a big voice from heaven or nothing like that. Sometimes you just, it's just a thought in your own mind that I really felt to do, you know, and I felt to ask
[01:44:54] the Lord to open up a line of communication. This can work. I've done this many times since then and um so I said, "Father God, I just pray Lord that you open up a line of communication between us and Peter and uh so that when we talk you'll be able to hear exactly what we're saying." So when we got up there, Peter, it's it's Kevin John Cary's son and I haven't seen you for many years since I was a little kid, you know. And I said, "And um I you know, I just want to let you know what's happened, you know. Um Peter, you've had a stroke. It's not looking very good for you, mate. it's touch and go whether you're going to survive, but you know, we're we're going to pray for you and we're going to believe that you're going to get healed and you're going to get set free, you know. And so he said, so so he just said in co obviously. So um and then that's what we done, right? So we we started praying for him and I said I said to him, "Peter, I know you can hear us." I said, "But we're going to do the prayer of salvation with you and and I'm I'm believing um you know, if you can hear us, just try and move
[01:45:54] something." So, they've got his hands sort of like I think he had his hands like that or something like that on his chest, but we could see see his hand his fingers and hands and that. And so, we said, um, if you can if you can hear what we're saying and to when it comes to the bit at the end, you got to say amen. If you can't actually move any of your body physically, then just in your mind just say amen. the Lord can hear your thoughts, so he he'll he'll heard you, you know. And so, um, we started praying and we we've done this prayer and and I said, "Well, I'm looking at I could I could maybe see his left hand was was closest to us. You could, you know, do you move your left hand or your fingers or anything, you know, and as we as he was praying as we come to the bit and went, I then it's your bit, Peter." He went like this. His hands went, but he went like fast. I want to do it slow to try and get the motion right. He went the little finger, this finger, and then the middle finger. Then three fingers moved like in a little wave really quick. And I did you see that?
[01:46:53] Did you see that? Yeah, I see it. I see it. So I'm really pleased she see it as well because then I think you know the enemy gets in. No, that's your imagination. You know, and I went, Peter, listen. You've said amen. You're in agreement. there. I'll be honest with you, this one, you know, we've had some we've had a couple of people come out of comas and and and uh actually uh live and get uh you know, sent home from hospital and that was given a death sentence or whatever. Um but but this one I felt to tell uh maybe is for someone specific that's listening that's got through the same thing. Um so he got saved, he didn't recover. It ain't one of the ones where it was a great miracle that but it was a great to be honest it's the biggest miracle which is salvation which is bigger than anything.
[01:47:36] If Peter would have recovered out the coma but hadn't have got saved what good is it? What good is you've had a bit more time on the on on the earth but we're talking about we're dead forever. You're going to one place or the other forever. I want you to get that, you know, into your head and have a think on that one that we're going to spend eternity either with Jesus or in a place of separation which is called hell which is without him. Yeah. And so to us that's the biggest miracle that Peter got saved and he's now in heaven with Jesus. You know, I'm gutted that he never got the second miracle which was to be healed and come out the coma. But if he did come out of that coma, he may not have kept his salvation. Now it would have been there's certain things you got to do which is have a relationship with Jesus Christ and you get that through the word of God through praying you know impressing him with the things of God but it's mainly through the word of God and praying you know have a relationship he already knows you now you got to get
[01:48:33] to know him and you get to know him through reading his word and finding out about him and communicating with him through prayer and that's what it's about so that that's maybe the biggest miracle out of anything that God's ever used me for the biggest miracle is salvation and and it's beautiful it's beautiful to be use for for that. You know, baptism, baptizing um Aaron and Charlotte as well, which is amazing, and all different guys that the Lord's used me for is another really really beautiful thing, you know, because it's you're going from being a believer in Christ to to which even the devil believes, you know, to a disciple, a follower of Jesus and it's beautiful.
[01:49:08] So, yeah, that's the bit. Incredible. um you know and is is the greatest miracle um because I mean what it changed in eternity you know is I mean it's everything isn't it so I um again I I searched I'll just I'll just share this I was seeking for like really 12 13 years I say 12 years I went down every rabbit hole possible I started researching about okay well I'm going to just go down this Christianity uh rabbit hole who was Jesus and just went straight to the source like the the scriptures learned everything I could about did he live, did he die, and did he come back? And as I said earlier, as you as I just went, you know, fullbore into that, show me the actual evidence like, you know, show me the logical and then very quickly it's like, well, this is overwhelming overwhelmingly um true like is, you know, it answers all the questions that I had. What am I doing here? What are what's you know, what's the purpose? What's my purpose?
[01:50:06] And where am I going next? Uh, and it it answered all of these questions, you know, a thousand times better than any other rabbit hole I ever went down. And I just knew I had the ring of truth. It was I know that I know that this is real. This is true. So, I had the logical part of it. I got that. And then uh um then come the the supernatural kind of um infill in the Holy Spirit which happened and I was like, you know, changed my life. It's become the most important thing in my life. Um, and you know, if you're if anybody listening to this is at a point where they're skeptical about who Jesus was and um, that's okay. It's good to be asked questions like I'm very a skeptical person. I had to go through, you know, an 12 months, 18 months, you know, uh, rabbit hole exploration of Christianity to to be open to it really and understand, you know, and I am an open person, but I want to know I want to know want to see the data. And then um you know if you do that, if you if you're curious and you seek earnestly in your heart, I believe you're always
[01:51:04] going to end up at Jesus as the truth. So I just want to say thank you for your obedience to God and seeing amazing fruit um and the things you've done to me and my wife Charlotte um is just inspiring and you know I just want to thank you for that and thank you for sharing your testimony uh today and you know may God fill you and just bless your ministry. I'm going to link to Kevin's book in the show notes and uh you're going to be you're going to be blessed uh to to grab a copy of it. It's absolutely incredible. It's going to show you how to uh get set free using simple prayers and you know it's going to inspire you to walk closer to the Lord and that he can find you anywhere you are. So he found Kevin in a prison cell. It doesn't matter where you are.
[01:51:44] You're never too bad to receive Jesus in your heart. Um and you know I just want to say again thank you Kevin coming along. Is there anything closing that you want to you you want to end with? Um well, I was just thinking if it's okay if if I just um uh say a little prayer. Definitely. Please. Prayers out cuz because uh there's there's two things. Um one thing um I' I'd like to um offer anyone the opportunity to just they were talking about the prayer of salvation just to you know do that do that prayer. It's quite quite a simple prayer really. And um and the other thing is I just want to pray for anybody that's um been struggling to have children.
[01:52:25] I just want to break off the curse of that. Yeah. So um so I think I think I'm going to do the curse one first and then the salvation because there might be people that don't believe that they know something happens with a prayer. Okay. So so so yeah. So Father God, we come before you Lord and uh I just just thank you Lord. We're just grateful to you, Lord, uh for everything you've done in our lives, Lord, for the change and transformation. Every good thing is from you, Lord, and we just give you all the glory and the honor and uh for whatever good comes out of this podcast, Lord. We thank you for it, Lord, and give you the the honor and the glory. Um so, Father God, I just pray right now, Lord, by your Holy Spirit right now, Lord, just make yourself real to all the people listening. Make yourself real, Lord. There's going to be people that don't know you, Lord, ain't got a relationship with you. Or there's going to be people that have got a relationship with you, but maybe need to press in that little bit more. But Lord, I just pray that you just just release
[01:53:23] your fire right now, Lord. Release your fire right now, Lord, on onto each person that's hearing or watching um this this podcast right now, Father. Release your fire, Lord. Lord, I pray for healing and restoration, Lord. Let there be healing and restoration right now, Father God. total healing and restoration. Uh in the name of Jesus, I pray, Lord, uh for anybody that's been struggling to have a child, Lord, your word says go be blessed and be multiplied, Lord. And um you bless the fruit of of of the women's wombs, Lord, and uh to multiply and fill the earth. So, Father God, I know that it's a curse from the enemy right now. So I break off every curse, every hex, every vex, every incantation, and all works of darkness off of my brothers and sisters under the sound of my voice right now, Lord. Lord, and I thank you. And in breaking off that curse, Lord, is not only going to um enable the women um to have children or or even the man that's listening to
[01:54:22] this podcast, Lord, that their wife may have children. But um, Father God, I thank you that there's also going to be other things released right now, Lord. That every work of darkness is being broken off their life. So, Father God, I pray that you make yourself real. Above all, the biggest miracle, Lord, that you make yourself real to the listener, to those who are unsaved, so that they won't spend eternity without you, Lord. Lord, this all starts with that invitation into into their hearts, Lord. And um yeah, so I just pray right now, Father God, and and if you can just repeat after me. Uh if you just say, "Father God, I repent of all my sins.
[01:55:04] Please forgive me and I forgive myself. Lord Jesus, I recognize that you died upon the cross at Calvary for my sins. You was buried in a tomb and you rose again on the third day and you're coming back again for me. So just put your hands out to receive now even for ones that are saved. I'm going to pray for a baptism and the Holy Spirit in the fire if you haven't already had it. So Father God right now Lord I know it's normally done by impartation which is a laying on the hands Lord but I know as well that there's no time or distance in the Holy Spirit. So I'm in the spirit. I'm laying my hands upon um the listeners's hands right now, Lord, and I'm releasing an impartation of your Holy Spirit. Let your rivers of living water bubble up inside their belly right now, Lord.
[01:55:58] Right now, fill them, Lord, with your Holy Spirit. Lord, fill them up to they're overflowing with your beautiful presence. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Father God. Right now, Lord, right now, release the fire, the fire. The fire, Lord, the holy fire. Not like a fire of the world that burns and destroys, but a fire, Lord, that that burns off the things of the enemy, that sets people on fire for your kingdom, that gives them a hunger in their belly for the things of God. So, Father God, right now, let everything of the enemy drop off of them right now. Maybe some of you are starting to cough right now or or yung right now. That's because um things are leaving your body right now in the name of Jesus. Lord, set them free, Father God. You came to set the captives free, Lord Jesus. So set the captives free right now Lord in Jesus name I pray.
[01:56:44] Thank you Lord. Amen. Amen and amen. Amen. Amen brother. God bless you Kevin. God bless your ministry and I'm excited to see um you know the the continued growth of it to people that you set free and set the set the captives free ministry out in Essics. I'll link to Kevin's YouTube channel, to the to the book uh book page below as well, so you can you can follow him online. So, thank you again. Thank you again, brother. Um, love you, man. And appreciate you jumping on. Yeah, you're very welcome. Love you, too. Thank you for all your help because even with a book, because I wouldn't be able to do, you know, half of what I've done on through that book is is through you. So, thank you so much for all your help.
[01:57:27] My my honor and my honor and pleasure, mate. All right. God bless you,